Tuesday, July 10, 2007

Why Bother To Tell Republicans Anything

Sunday I tried to be nice to Republicans, Here, where I tried to point out that using me as an attack source was not smart, in fact, that they shouldn't read this blog, in the title. So, what do you suppose they've been doing? Reading this Blog. They've been coming in droves from Draft Fred Thompson where I am not a member and surely won't be. Maybe I should point out some of the nice things I've had to say about their phony candidate, that's two and a word search wouldn't find anything nicer. Mitt and Fred? I'd be hard put to say which is a bigger pandering truth bending typical Republican "conservative of convenience."

Ron Paul's libertarian small government philosophy makes me want to gag with its "I've got mine screw you" outcomes, but he's a straight-shooter and he does get some other stuff very right and for very good and well thought out reasons and all these people can see is their two bit phony conservatives and theocratic wantabes. They've got an actual real article with principles and of course that'll never do...

They more than deserve what they've got coming at them.


t.a. said...

hey Chuck

i saw Ron Paul in the eary 80s at PSU when he was the Libertarian Party candidate for pres. i went because the name "Libertarian" was intriguing; i went with an open mind. what i found out was that his attitude was anti-democratic. he just couldn't abide that other people would have a say in what he wanted. you got it right with "i got mine screw you". all these people who are taking a few statements about the war and then thinking this guy should president, buncha idjits. it's not unlike the progressives to see Kucinich's platform an then want to believe he's presidential material. except Dennis is a thousand times more presidential than Paul.

Coyote said...

I'll take Ron Paul any day of the week over any of the pro-war, anti-liberty corporate shills the Dems and Pubs are running. If Paul looked more like George Clooney and less like Gollum, he'd probably have a chance.

There are many grassroots conservatives who are thrilled about Paul's candidacy, but partisan hacks on the Right make the same cost-benefit calculations that partisan hacks on the Left make. How can they ensure they don't lose to the other party? If that requires giving the nomination to a Hillary or Mitt, so be it. Who cares if that's what's best for the country? The results of such calculations are lower common denominators like George W. Bush. It's this party-over-principle behavior that drives us non-partisans absolutely batty.

I bet ya TA would rather see a pro-war, pro-Patriot Act corporatist like Hillary in office than someone like Paul who has stood up against both the war and the Patriot Act since day one. But then again, TA has never been a real big fan of civil liberties anyway. We've moved beyond such obsolete concepts, right TA? And I quote: "We need to move past the rights of the individual....We don't need rights; we need responsibilities...."

As uplifting a paean to freedom as your statement is, I'll take Ron Paul's version of liberty, thanks very much.

KISS said...

Only, and I mean only is the reason I will vote for any front-runner dimmo because of the Supreme court. Mike Gravel for Prez and Ron Paul for Vice prez are the one's I dig the most.

eyepublius said...

Why try to tell a Republican anything indeed? They won't listen -- they CAN'T listen. If they ever let the truth penetrate their little fantasy world it would make their heads explode.

Frank Rich had a great line in the NY Times the other day to describe the remaining diehard Busheviks: "grumpy old white guys watching Bill O'Rielly in a bunker." That pretty much says it all. The lunatic fringe has gone back to being the lunatic fringe, as it always does sooner or later.

Steve Culley said...

Just a thought. How about Ron Paul and Byron Dorgan?

Chuck Butcher said...

If you cannot afford to pay for all the services the govt provides that you use, Libertarianism is not for you. If you give a rat's patoot about the folks that cannot afford it, again no.

Libertarians will leave your civil liberties alone and most won't go on foreign adventures, but if you're in the bottom 80% of the economic scale you'll take one hell of a hit as govt goes bye bye on you.

Unless you are one of the winners in the economc system there is no way you can cover what govt does and as you sink they'll tell that you "just made bad choices." What's funny is when they sell it to those who'll lose the most and have nothing to gain.

Coyote said...

Chuck, you make it sound as if the entire federal government would be abolished the day Ron Paul walks into the Oval Office. There will be plenty of federal "services" for the foreseeable future, even if Paul was elected. What Paul would do is cut back on the drunken sailor spending, not get us engaged in any more quagmires overseas, work to repeal the anti-liberty legacy of the Bushies, and give more responsibility to state and local governments. I personally would rather see Oregon keep its own tax money rather than sending it to DC so the vermin infesting that swamp can blow it on some idiotic foreign adventure or absurd pork-barrel project.

Is Ron Paul perfect in every way? Of course not. But given the last 6 years of bipartisan empire-building and bipartisan legislation like the Patriot Act, I'm ready for a BIG change.

Jeff Alworth said...

Coyote may like Paul, and antiwar types may like Paul, but he's a true libertarian and a statistical outlier. He is down on most government programs, including Medicare and Social Security. The last thing our country needs is to dimsantle MORE of the safety net.

The reason he's gotten some attention is because he's honest--a shocking rarity among Republicans--and because the true conservatives who swallowed Bushism for 7 years are finally ready to get back to dismantling the government, and he's the only candidate who'll do it.

But the number of Americans who actually want to dismantle the government are in the single digits. Which is why his campaign is an interesting oddity, and a total nonstarter.

Coyote said...

Again you're conflating the federal government with "government" in general. Oregon gets back 98 cents for every dollar it gives DC, but those 98 cents come with all sorts of strings attached. Don't you think we should just keep that damn dollar to begin with, and tell the middlemen to go to hell?

What do the feds do with our money? Start wars of aggression to justify the Pentagon's outrageous budget? Negotiate corporate trade agreements that gut our industrial base? Build bridges to nowhere in Alaska? Give it away to transnational corporations? They sure as hell don't protect our borders. I say to hell with the feds. I'd rather keep my money local, thanks very much.

Every single mainstream candidate for '08 will only make the federal government even more bloated and Big Brothery than it already is. Every single one of them. Except Ron Paul.

As for SS and other such programs, I'm a Gen X'er and I've NEVER thought I'd see a penny of the money I've paid into SS. Not a penny. The Baby Boomers will bankrupt it long before I turn 90, or whatever the age has been raised to by then. The federal government is already bankrupt. We need to find our own local, state, and regional solutions.

Coyote said...

Whoops, meant 97 cents for every dollar. Even worse!

Chuck Butcher said...

I don't have a lot of patience for much more "small" govt. Here's the deal, what these ideas boil down to is "welfare queens" are the target. These folks don't ever talk about the rich, the corporate giants, or the connected. There is a group who who benefit massively from the economic system, and it is not the bottom 60%.

coyote, I don't pick at Ron Paul like I do the others, not because I agree with him, but because I respect his principled stand. I hit him by extension in "Conservatism." BushCo gets no respect from me, liars, cheats, and thieves. The (R) candidates excepting Paul can't manage to be straight. Theocrats offend the hell out of me, I do not now nor will I ever kick people's religion. I also will get down right rude about having it imposed on me or my country.

Yes, I rather see the (R) run somebody with principles than the ones they'll run. It won't happen, that Party is too screwed up now to get there and they'll get smashed in 08 in Congress & White House unless the Dems do something terminally stupid. They seem to be working real hard not to do that, I think they should follow the course I laid out in "Impeachment Drumbeat."

Well, they forgot to ask me...

Steve Culley said...

Lou Dobbs poll today asked' would you consider reregistering as an indpendent? If I remember right about 80 percent said yes.
I catch a little Washington Journal on C-Span and watch the email on Dobbs and even sometimes O'Reilly. I get the same thing. People are fed up. Could be the year of the 3rd party or even 4th. Could be a lot of Republicans looking for a home, especially if the hacks give us Rudy or Hillary