Friday, August 24, 2007

Viet Iraq Nam

Let me see how this works, GWB awol TX ANG along with 5x deferred Dick and the rest of the chickenhawks NOW want to say Viet Nam and Iraq in the same sentence. Not in 2004 when the quagmire aspect started to get obvious, but now a couple weeks before the White House tells Congress what it thinks Gen. Petraeus ought to say. No, despite the BushCo insistence for months that Patraeus would report, the White House will do the report. We are now on the umpteenth iteration of "new and improved" plans that will save the day.



The same team that brought you the war in Iraq tells you that we ran away in Viet Nam and emboldened the terrorists and cost thousands (millions) of lives there and that is what will happen in Iraq, and the defeat will bring terrorist home to us. I really can't think of a much more stupid and dangerous analogy to run with. Not one Admin. ever told the American public the truth about Viet Nam - Tonkein Gulf Resolution/WMDs & 9/11, the SVN government never had wide support with its citizens, that government was corrupt, our troops were never sure who was an enemy outside uniformed NVA, we used conventional troops against guerrilla troops, we did not win "hearts and minds," we won every pitched conventional battle, the American public finally lost patience, the war was primarily fought by the poor and blue collar, we destabilized the region, we spent blood and treasure on a cause that their civilian populace didn't care about, and made ourselves unpopular with our ordinary allies. There was, also, the Domino Theory, you know the one... Each year the war got bigger and bigger and always right around the corner was the final resolution. There never was a political settlement in the country and its army, for the most part, stunk. There are two real big differences, rain and race. Communism is essentially a sort of religion and the Saigon government was one of personality not law - another form of religion government. Most of the people were dedicated to the proposition of staying alive and getting by, not noble causes.



The dead-enders insist the "libbers" lost 'Nam, I'd be surprised to hear that Henry Kissinger ever thought of himself in those terms and Nixon - well, I guess an unpopular war and anti-democracy actions by presidents may go hand in hand, along with patriotism/treason rhetoric Militarists insist that Viet Nam was over managed by politicians, then deny that it is exactly what is happening in Iraq.



I admit it, I'm still trying to figure out how anybody thought invading Iraq was a good idea, I cannot understand the logic. Now that we have a nice little religious civil war going I can't seem to wrap my head around the idea that it is "our" war. GHWB refused to do it, before sanctions had crushed Iraq's economy and infrastructure, but the failed son just had to try to "one up" the old man, and pulled another of his inimitable failures. At election time people chose to ignore that this is the guy that could wreck an oil company - even with all the family oil connections - and a professional ball club, so he became President and now....

11 comments:

Steve Culley said...

A couple of years ago, here in Baker City, I told senator Smith that we needed to get that country divided into three different ones, Sunnis, Shia and Kurds. Senator Smith is handsome and rich and has a nice smile so he was able to blow me off and off course the local press declined to mention what I said. Now some of our illustrious leaders are starting to talk about partitian. Too late, we have had a bunch of son of bitches killing each other over who are the true sons of Mohamed and making it impossible for any reconciliation. The idea of a united Iraq is a pipe dream. Yes they are going to fight it out if we leave but that is what they are doing now. It's what they have been doing for a thousand years.
Will they follow us home? Sure could, right through George's wide open borders. Senator Smith is now saying we need to open up our country to Iraqi refugees. Betcha a bunch of them are Al Qaeda.

Anonymous said...

Betcha a bunch of them are Al Qaeda.

7:49 AM

Dear Steve, Please accept my thank's for some commonsense thinking. You damn right they could be.

Chuck Butcher said...

Maybe.

I'm pretty sure the Iraqis will sort out their "difficulites" whether we are there or not. I'm pretty sure it would lack in prettiness without us, I'm also sure that it lacks that now.

It would be real nice to have small narrowly targeted units to deal with the people who are dangerous to us, but apparently we are going to keep doing what GWB thinks is best, which has nothing to do with dealing with the people who are dangerous to us.

Anonymous said...

apparently we are going to keep doing what GWB thinks is best, which has nothing to do with dealing with the people who are dangerous to us.

Yes Chuck, unlike you, who never served, Your kid, my kid, will follow the CIC's orders and Kill every terror type wherever we find them....BAGDAD, LONDON, MADRID,PORTLAND, BAKER CITY.

He will, as my kid did...FOLLOW ORDERS UNTIL "BUSHCO" is replaced.

You, and your's are an example of the people that dilute "combat focus" and by losing that focus....YOU DIE! you remember that.

Anonymous said...

well, I guess an unpopular war and anti-democracy actions by presidents may go hand in hand, along with patriotism/treason rhetoric Militarists insist that Viet Nam was over managed by politicians. Chuck said this...so he really, really believes it!!!

Chuck: LBJ SHOULD BE TRIED IF ALIVE FOR WAR CRIMES....ask McCain, how many sorties he flew bombing the same place over and over until the gooks figured out the access points and exit points of the bomb runs and set up AK AK fire that was so simple it was point and pull a little lead.

He micro-managed NAM...period!

Prove 43 has, you can't!

Chuck Butcher said...

Micro mananged? It's been Macro managed into a major cluster F*** by GWB. You see, I'll go out on my feet however that goes, you on the other hand will crawl to BushCo's feet whining all the way. Too bad. All that pissy anger of your's might be useful aimed at something real. GWB is a fraud his Iraq war is a fraud; Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia and a few other places are real, but there's no Plutocratic advantage to be had there.

Anonymous said...

WOWOW..you drove right around the question...YOU KNOW HISTORY HAS SHOWN WHAT LBJ DID.

DAILY MEETINGS IN THE OVAL OFFICE TO PICK TARGETS FOR THE NEXT DAY...it's not there in IRAQ and you know it.

NO, YOU DONKEY'S REAR, I WANT BUSH OUT ON THE BORDERS, NOT IRAQ.

Anonymous said...

Recently, FBI Director Robert Mueller, in an interview with NewsMax, confirmed Williams' main claim. Mueller said al-Qaida's paramount goal is clear: to detonate a nuclear device that would kill hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Mueller told NewsMax that at times, the threat feels so real he lies awake at night thinking about the prospect.

Williams maintains that al-Qaida is not content on blowing up one nuclear device or even simply a "dirty" nuke — but wants to explode real nuclear devices in seven U.S. cities simultaneously.

Williams says these cities are New York, Washington, D.C., Las Vegas, Miami, Boston, Houston, and Los Angeles.

Mueller seems to confirm this claim of multiple attacks, saying both New York and Washington would be likely targets. Already Williams says the U.S. government has Washington webbed by "choke" points to detect nuclear material.

For many Americans the threat of al-Qaida's nuclear ambitions begins in the time after the horrific 9/11 attacks.

But as Williams shows so clearly, al-Qaida has been devising its nuclear plan since the early 1990s — and the U.S. government and other intelligence services have been well aware of al-Qaida's plan.

For example, Williams quotes Michael Scheuer, a senior CIA official who headed the agency's bin Laden unit.

Scheuer admitted the CIA "found that [bin Laden] and al-Qaida were involved in an extraordinarily sophisticated and professional effort to acquire weapons of mass destruction — in this case, nuclear weapons; so, by the end of 1996, it was clear that this was an organization unlike any other one we had ever seen."

Remember, Scheuer is describing the period before 9/11, proving again that bin Laden had been investing enormous time, resources, and money into getting nuclear weapons for more than 10 years.

Bin Laden and his adherents believe this nuclear cataclysm will usher in "The Day of Islam," the dream of radical Muslims to see all of humankind fall in submission before the throne of Allah as the "Great Satan," America, is brought to her knees.

Williams is not surprised at all that bin Laden has planned to launch such nuclear attacks, suggesting his delay is consistent with his past pattern of activities. For sure, it is a plan that has been long in its hatching.

Based on the "forgotten testimony" of the FBI's "Confidential Source One," as well as other sources, Williams first presents evidence of bin Laden's purchase of highly enriched uranium in Sudan and nuclear devices from the Chechens and the Russian Mafia.

He then offers further information on the workings of Pakistani scientists and technicians from the A.Q. Khan Research Facility to maintain and upgrade al-Qaida's "bespoke nukes" (with explosive yields in excess of 10 kilotons) for the "American Hiroshima."

Williams explosive revelations are even more worrisome because they are not simply backed up by speculation and anonymous sources, they are sourced with government reports and comments made "on the record" by top officials.

Among the explosive revelations in "The Day of Islam":

In 1996, al-Qaida's "paymaster" and a top lieutenant for bin Laden walked into a U.S. embassy in Africa and spilled the beans on the terror group's activities — including that al-Qaida had purchased nuclear material in the Sudan
The incredible story of a Brooklyn, N.Y., mosque that was receiving "stipends" from Uncle Sam for more than $2 million a year up until 1993 — when it was discovered the mosque was the nerve center for the first attack on the World Trade Center
The fact that despite the hoopla about the war on terror, only one member of bin Laden's shura — or high command — has been killed
The case of a Chicago charity that raised millions for bin Laden and even paid for one of his operatives whose sole job was to acquire nuclear weapons
Evidence the Saudi intelligence service claims bin Laden has an arsenal of between 40 and 70 tactical nuclear weapons
Russian sources that claim bin Laden bought 12 to 15 fully assembled nuclear weapons
Ties between al-Qaida and the Chechen rebels who allegedly acquired nuclear suitcase devices
Bin Laden's claim to a Pakistani journalist two months before 9/11 that acquiring nuclear was "not difficult" — claiming they were available from Russia for between $10 million and $20 million
Author Tom Clancy's revelations he was "first bemused, then stunned" to find how easy it is for a wealthy person to develop a nuclear device equal to that dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
How atomic blueprints are available from Amazon.com!
Evidence bin Laden spent between $60 and $100 million to build nuclear devices with the help of scientists from Pakistan, Russia, and China
The damage even a low yield "junk" nuclear device would do to New York — with an estimated 250,000 dead in several days
The remarkable story of two British secret agents who penetrated al-Qaida's camps in Afghanistan — and reported to Britain that the terror group was finishing work on radiological weapons
The stunning admission of the head of Britain's MI5 who confirmed that "renegade" scientists had provided al-Qaida with the knowledge they needed to build a nuclear device
New Jersey: the strange case of a Pakistani who died of radiological poisoning soon after 9/11, a man who had apparently served as a "mule" to transport the deadly material into the U.S.
Axis of Evil: the secret alliance between al-Qaida and Iran that brings together two religious groups with one common goal: destroying the U.S.
And much, much more ...

Yeah CHUCK, BUSH LIED ABOUT ALL OF THIS...I'D SURE TRADE HOUSTON WHERE MY SON IS, AND LAS VEGAS WHERE MY SISTER LIVES FOR AS CLOSE TO BAKER CITY AS I CAN GET.

OH WOW, How can I say that about where you live..It has to be somewhere else to make you come to your senses...HELL, what sense?

Chuck Butcher said...

And so you'd piss about in Iraq. There is about exactly not one iota of sense in your arguments. If your so-called facts are even partially true, Iraq is the last place to look.

Anonymous said...

HEY EXPERT...DON'T JUST DISS THE INFO...don't just do the Bubba deny deny deny game plan..REFUTE THE DATA,OR EAT MORE FIBER.

Your the college boy left brain know it all expert...DON'T JUST FIRE RDS ...HIT SOMETHING!

Chuck Butcher said...

Wlliams is a "Savage Nation" fan, that pretty much says it all. Savage is such a loon that even the rightwing Republicans avoid him. If you want to argue at least get somebody that a some Republican would speak to/