Wednesday, May 28, 2008

Fix This

I've spent some time on a friend's very reasonable blog trying to persuade a person that voting McCain rather than Obama was a bad idea. I've had some people get rather ticked at me for suggesting some are not reasonable. I've pulled a comment that is rather representative from a Hillary blog and one of the politer ones:

We have been sounding the warning bell to the DNC for months now -- they ignore it at their peril.

People will do what they want to do come November, but I certainly hope, if, haven forefend, this empty suit gets nominated, that voters won't forget or forego their promise NOT to vote for him.

This newbie Senator, with his arrogance, inexperience and his vile and evil campaign does not deserve the Presidency.
ani 05.27.2008 - 11:28 pm #

I won't let people forget. If I have to post the comments of the trolls here on a blog, or the trolls in other places or the Iron my shirt or the condescending remarks made by Obambi -

If I have to post these things a million times a day, I'll do it. we cannot forget. It is time for change, all right. But not the kind Obambi was expecting.

I will actively work against Obambi at every opportunity.

Now I'd like somebody to explain to me just what approach will work with this person. I've already found out what will not work someplace else. Do not, whatever you do, point out that there are serious consequences to such an action. I'll bet you might as well spit into the wind.

The site and commenter are not identified, deliberately. I won't drive traffic there or reward their behavior with "trolls." I also didn't cherry pick or go to the looniest site. You can find any number of them - yourself.

Maybe you can talk to this person who evidently used DPO to CC a lot of people:
Subject: Super Delegates

The voting should be a private primary ballet.

There is too much intimidation and there has been too much money donated to campaign fund for elected Super Delegates. Obama has donated more than $700,000 and Clinton in the range of $200,000. This out spending 3-1 in the state pledges should not carry through in the final SD vote.

The risk of retaliation to voters back home should be a serious concern.

Also, secrete ballet would reflect a fairness needed at this time.

Obama has only won 2 of the last 7 primaries and he has the ego to give a Victory speech in Iowa the same night after the close of the Kentucky primary. Putting out the fire of Clinton's power win and dominating the media exposure.
The same thing was done in WV with an endorsement of John Edwards the next day.

Hillary Clinton has been abuse by the media and her very own Party. I am appalled, and as a 40 year Democrat, I am ready to leave the Party.

I will not vote for Obama in the General Election. He said he did not need WV, KT and it seems FL and MI....... He does not need me either.

He is not our best candidate. We will lose. His baggage is dangerous and the Democrats are too polite to rummage through it.
The Republicans will not be that polite. Clinton's baggage is old news...Yawn.

This latest smear on Clinton about Senator Robert Kennedy is a sham. How can anyone reflect back at that time and not associate the horrible event..... it is burned in our memory.

I regret the direction my Party is taking with this Primary, it is as if the decision was made from the state. Nancy Pelosi has made her opinion very clear and from her seat of power, this is wrong.

The DNC will meet May 31....... If what they are doing is complicated, then what they are doing is wrong. Obama took his name off MI by choice, there was not a rule to do this.
Massive media and radio told voters to vote Undecided if their vote was for Obama or Edwards. 40% did....... Clinton was not the only one on the ballet, how does it make Kucinich feel? He got 7% and Hillary got 53%.
Obama want all of the 40%.

Have Hillary GIVE some of her votes in Florida. (any split does this)
And TAKE some of Edwards votes in Michigan.

The solution is simple.... Votes given to Clinton are hers and Votes given to Obama are his with a portion of the undecided in MI.... yes, Edwards has endorsed Obama, but those pledged delegates need to be awarded at the convention. He has already sent troops to MI and they have already claimed ALL of the undecided and the Committee has not even met yet.

I am sorry this is so long, there is just too much abuse going on out there.
This rush to pledge SD before the close of these Primaries is strong arming and pressuring Clinton to quit. I, for one, think this is an insult on our system and may leave a scare for a long time.

Thank you,

Madeline Stewart

Now it might interest Madeline to know that Hillary started this out with 100 SD and that apparently wasn't an effort to short circuit the process? She seems to have the idea that publicly denounced as illegitimate votes are somehow extremely valid. Maybe she's open to persuasion that the Primary hasn't been stolen from Hillary. I have made the point that Hillary has used MI/FL in a cynical divisive manner designed to scapegoat the DNC and harden her supporters. Maybe I've made a valid point?


Demimondian said...


I really think that there's nothing you can do to change that commenter's mind, and that, for now, the best thing to do is nothing. He (gender neutral) for better or for worse, is currently not susceptible to reason, and trying to change his mind by reasoning is only going to make him dig his heels in more stubbornly for now -- defeating your purpose.

My strategy with my friends who are still "on the ledge" is to listen quietly, disagree politely, and refuse to argue -- right now, Obama supporters are in no-win situations, and just need to not engage.

RickTaylor said...

I agree with demimonidan.

In addition, I'd say what really needs to happen is that Hillary Clinton and her supporters need to begin to bring the party together; there's not much we can do. That's why her scorched earth policy has been so destructive. Still, it could make a big difference if, when the final numbers are in, she supports the nominee she says she will. I don't know how that's going to work; she's painted herself into a corner with her rhetoric. How can she fully support Obama when she's already said his nomination will be considered illegitimate if she gets anything less than she wants in Michigan/Florida, and she's already said unlike her and McCain he has no experience to bring to the position and he's unready to be commander in chief?

Still, if she does do what she says she'll do, that could make a difference. I assume that's why the DNC has been so patient with her, even as she's attempted to smear them with Florida 2000 and Zimbabwe.

RickTaylor said...

This is entirely unrelated, but I notice you list John Cole as "Balloon Juice - Ex-Conservative." I suspect he'd prefer to be listed as "Ex-Republican." I've seen him say he still thinks of himself as a conservative; it's just that his party has become so corrupt he sees no other solution but to raise to the ground.

Chuck Butcher said...

re:John, I've been watching him and he's mostly lost even the small 'c' conservative creds. I know he thinks of himself in that frame, but he keeps taking positions (out of necessity) that are not. I can change it and will, but John's got to watch where he's going if he wants that 'c'.

BJers on the comments here? Cool. I agree with both of you, there's a whole archive full of me agreeing with you... As with JC, I'd as soon leave Hillary alone, all she has to do is quit trying to kick my Party apart. Not quit the race, just stop the destruction.

Thanks for stopping by, comments enliven the site.

Zak Johnson said...

Saw a good op-ed today rewording the old saying "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Except patriotism was replaced with "feminism," which seems to be Hillary's equivalent of the race card. Very sad to see what she's doing. If there were a few more senators with guts (ok, quite a few more) she would find herself relegated to obscurity in the senate for what the self-serving divisiveness she is sowing and sowing and sowing again. The circus she has put in place for this Saturday's DNC meeting is only the latest of what should have been many last straws (I have yet to hear her tell her supporters not to storm the gates. I guess she misplaced that memo.)

Chuck Butcher said...

I know what she does, but how it's all supposed to work out I don't know. I can't make it fit a rational strategy to end well. I can see the short term strategies, but the long term one misses me.